WOULD YOU LIKE TO LISTEN IN ON A CONVERSATION I had this week with a person of science who said he wasn’t a person of faith?
Over the years I've had a lot of conversations with people who identified themselves as atheists. Those conversations could go poorly quickly. One threatened to call on his friends to destroy me in social media. I asked him not to forget my middle initial. But the conversations could also go happily.
This conversation started with a question that looked suspicious to me. I thought it was a setup, some kind of a trap. It may have been, I don't know.
Warning: Neither of us are Trump fans. That comes across in the conversation. A moment of bonding, perhaps.
ED
Was Jesus a Jew or a Christian? This has been nagging me for some time now. Sincerely, Ed.
STEVE
Jesus was a Jew. The term “Christian“ does not show up anywhere in history records until a decade or more after the crucifixion. You’ll find it in Acts 11:25–26. People started calling followers of Jesus Christians in the city of Antioch in Syria. It was probably a name that was not complimentary. A bit like calling the followers of Sun Myung Moon “Moonies.“
When you have questions like that, you should probably try googling. The Google search is very helpful. Steve.
ED
Thank you for your prompt reply. I apologize for not googling. I preferred talking to a human rather than an inanimate server.
Jesus couldn't have been a Jew. God appearing in human form was (still is) anathema to Jews. What am I missing? And what about claims he was a man of peace? Matthew 10:34, “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
These things confuse me. Sincerely, Ed.
STEVE
Hi, again.
If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it might be a duck.
Jesus, as described by the Bible writers, was the very Jewish son of Jewish parents. He worked his way through the rituals and died observing Passover in Jerusalem.
I'm not sure about your Auntie Thema, but the Jewish Bible has Jacob wrestling someone who sounds like God as a bad wrestler. And the Jewish Bible has God taking a walk to check out Sodom and stopping along the way to have Sarah laugh at his idea that she's going to get pregnant (in her early 90s).
On the peace thing with Jesus, try to imagine anyone today creating peace without starting an uprising. Trump says he wants peace in Ukraine, when he sounds more like what he wants is a piece of Ukraine.
I want peace in the USA, but I think Trump has to leave this world first. And if he continues as is, people will help him get there, I expect. That world would be better and more peaceful for me. But his cult would not be happy.
I can understand the peace Jesus wants. And I understand the war he provokes. When truth confronts lies and corruption, BOOM.
Peace to you. Steve.
ED
Hello Steve (for the last time).
We are of the same mind regarding Trump. I'll never understand the praise heaped upon him by so many evangelicals. And people of color. (Remember his "immigrants from s***hole countries"? And "why not more Norwegians"? His instructing his property managers to exclude Blacks? Et cetera ad nauseam.) His ignorance, bigotry, and lack of compassion are not matters of opinion, but objective reality….
Using the Bible to buttress your arguments seems circular in its logic. But let's leave it at that. You are a religious man, a man of faith. I am neither.
Thank you for your attention. Sincerely, Ed.
STEVE
Ah, you're right. It's tough for people of faith and people of science to talk about abstract mysteries from religious teachings or history that intersects with religion.
But it's important to do that. To get along with each other, it helps to understand something of each other. Especially when the "something" is important to the person. And the person is important to us.
I could try to explain to Trump how the son of one of my best friends is now his daughter. But I don't think he'll understand it until one of his sons shaves off a beard and walks into the room in a tutu, on his way to ballet class. Kinda like Cheney with a gay daughter, whose sexuality he accepted.
It can take a jolt like that to get us onboard with spirituality or convince us to jump ship, as CNN founder Ted Turner did after his sister died.
There's more common ground between "people of faith and science" (as I think of myself) and "people of science Period" than we realize, I think. I know there have been some spiritual experiences that have happened in my family that left [an atheist friend of mine] simply saying he didn't understand it. I told one of those stories in this video:
Sweet dreams of heaven.
Take care. Peace to you. Steve.
ED
Steve, such a pleasant surprise this attitude of yours. Props to you. You express yourself better than most correspondents, a trait I admire.
For many judgmental people all it takes is a jolt of reality to snap them out of their hate and belligerence. A couple decades ago there was a political operative (name escapes me) [steve is guessing he means Lee Atwater] who made Roy Cohn look like a Girl Scout. He enjoyed destroying lives. Then he came down with terminal cancer. Looking back on his life he saw the evil of his ways and went on a campaign of restitution and apology.
Every Trump supporter defends his right to an opinion. I defend that right with one qualification: You are entitled to your own set of opinions, but not your own set of facts. Truth is truth; there are no alternative facts. There is an objective reality from which we can derive those truths and facts. January 6 is a prime example of denying truth, facts, and objective reality by characterizing and rationalizing that day as just another pleasant outing for the tourists.
I'm a strict materialist. You seem a vitalist at heart. I keep an open mind. I look for reasons to believe but find none other than "wanting it to be true so it must be true."
Yes, scientists and people of faith have much in common. Look no further than the life of theoretical physicist and Catholic priest, Georges Lemaître. I am looking for a good biography. I want to understand how he reconciled the dichotomy. Perhaps I can then become both a man of faith and a "scientist." You take care, too. Peace, Ed.
Is it just me or does that warm your heart just a little bit? Two opposites talking kindly to one another.
Admittedly, we weren't kind to Mr. Trump. But Jesus set the precedent for how to deal with unmitigated evil. He ordered them into a herd of pigs.
What keeps me up at night